Comments on: Are You a Good Person? http://jenny-and-erin.com/2007/06/are-you-a-good-person/ a tongue-in-cheek quest for understanding... Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:13:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1 By: Jenny http://jenny-and-erin.com/2007/06/are-you-a-good-person/#comment-182 Jenny Mon, 18 Jun 2007 23:02:59 +0000 http://jenny-and-erin.com/2007/06/are-you-a-good-person/#comment-182 Yes, I read about the shooting in Melbourne on cnn.com last night. Glad you are still alive!! :) Yes, I read about the shooting in Melbourne on cnn.com last night. Glad you are still alive!! :)

]]> By: Mark http://jenny-and-erin.com/2007/06/are-you-a-good-person/#comment-181 Mark Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:18:07 +0000 http://jenny-and-erin.com/2007/06/are-you-a-good-person/#comment-181 That test says I'm Neutral Good. LIES!!! Yup Jenny, creating a character can take ages, then developing it even longer. It's played offline, mainly, though there is an <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMORPG">MMORPG</a> set in the D&D worlds. It's kinda like 2nd Life, but set in a fantasy world (magic and swords and monsters kind of fantasy). It scares me that "honor" killings actually still take place. Or any kinds of killings. Melbourne was apparently chaotic today after someone shot three people in the middle of the city, then disappeared. :( Erin, lawful good characters going bad make for the most interesting stories. Especially when even the Gods turn against them. Give em hell! That test says I’m Neutral Good. LIES!!!

Yup Jenny, creating a character can take ages, then developing it even longer. It’s played offline, mainly, though there is an MMORPG set in the D&D worlds. It’s kinda like 2nd Life, but set in a fantasy world (magic and swords and monsters kind of fantasy).

It scares me that “honor” killings actually still take place. Or any kinds of killings. Melbourne was apparently chaotic today after someone shot three people in the middle of the city, then disappeared. :(

Erin, lawful good characters going bad make for the most interesting stories. Especially when even the Gods turn against them. Give em hell!

]]> By: Jenny http://jenny-and-erin.com/2007/06/are-you-a-good-person/#comment-180 Jenny Sun, 17 Jun 2007 23:35:22 +0000 http://jenny-and-erin.com/2007/06/are-you-a-good-person/#comment-180 Ohhhh, scary! Bring it on, I'll be waiting and watching. Should be interesting. Ohhhh, scary! Bring it on, I’ll be waiting and watching. Should be interesting.

]]> By: Erin http://jenny-and-erin.com/2007/06/are-you-a-good-person/#comment-179 Erin Sun, 17 Jun 2007 23:32:22 +0000 http://jenny-and-erin.com/2007/06/are-you-a-good-person/#comment-179 I'm that easy to read, huh? Be warned - I'm going to start working on cultivating a more mysterious, dangerous side... You won't know what hit you! I’m that easy to read, huh? Be warned - I’m going to start working on cultivating a more mysterious, dangerous side… You won’t know what hit you!

]]> By: Jenny http://jenny-and-erin.com/2007/06/are-you-a-good-person/#comment-178 Jenny Sun, 17 Jun 2007 23:27:00 +0000 http://jenny-and-erin.com/2007/06/are-you-a-good-person/#comment-178 Oh Erin, You have plenty of flash and excitement good though you may be!!! But, this pretty much has you pegged. :) Oh Erin,
You have plenty of flash and excitement good though you may be!!! But, this pretty much has you pegged. :)

]]> By: Erin http://jenny-and-erin.com/2007/06/are-you-a-good-person/#comment-177 Erin Sun, 17 Jun 2007 23:23:00 +0000 http://jenny-and-erin.com/2007/06/are-you-a-good-person/#comment-177 Jenny <em>made me</em> take the character alignment test too. I'm Lawful Good - My character "tells the truth, keeps her word, helps those in need, and speaks out against injustice." It might be good, but personally sounds a little boring. Where's my flash? Where's my excitement? Jenny made me take the character alignment test too. I’m Lawful Good - My character “tells the truth, keeps her word, helps those in need, and speaks out against injustice.” It might be good, but personally sounds a little boring. Where’s my flash? Where’s my excitement?

]]> By: Jenny http://jenny-and-erin.com/2007/06/are-you-a-good-person/#comment-176 Jenny Sun, 17 Jun 2007 23:01:57 +0000 http://jenny-and-erin.com/2007/06/are-you-a-good-person/#comment-176 Hey Mark, Sorry about the delay in responding, your comment had accidentally been sent to spam land. I've never played any role-playing games but had friends who did in college. All I really know about them is they sure end up taking up a lot of time... :) That said, I checked out the link you included and this is interesting. I've always been fascinated with the sometime fluidity between good and evil especially when evil is dressed up (and accepted) as good and vice versa. I imagine this would be a very interesting (and potentially entertaining) way to explore this a bit further. Chaotic Neutral, huh? I took a quiz this site had and it pegged me as Neutral but I’m not so sure for a large majority of the questions there wasn’t a single response that I actually would have chosen… So is this partly why the game takes so long? You start from scratch and completely set up a personality? Is this played online? Is D&D similar to sites such as 2nd Life?? I’ve never thought of a universal moral standard quite the way you described it before… I’d don’t know how extreme the concept of honor killings are if you are a woman in many parts of the world as it seems to happen on a fairly regular basis even here in the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing Hey Mark,
Sorry about the delay in responding, your comment had accidentally been sent to spam land. I’ve never played any role-playing games but had friends who did in college. All I really know about them is they sure end up taking up a lot of time… :) That said, I checked out the link you included and this is interesting. I’ve always been fascinated with the sometime fluidity between good and evil especially when evil is dressed up (and accepted) as good and vice versa. I imagine this would be a very interesting (and potentially entertaining) way to explore this a bit further.

Chaotic Neutral, huh? I took a quiz this site had and it pegged me as Neutral but I’m not so sure for a large majority of the questions there wasn’t a single response that I actually would have chosen… So is this partly why the game takes so long? You start from scratch and completely set up a personality? Is this played online? Is D&D similar to sites such as 2nd Life??

I’ve never thought of a universal moral standard quite the way you described it before…

I’d don’t know how extreme the concept of honor killings are if you are a woman in many parts of the world as it seems to happen on a fairly regular basis even here in the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing

]]> By: Mark http://jenny-and-erin.com/2007/06/are-you-a-good-person/#comment-174 Mark Thu, 14 Jun 2007 04:15:00 +0000 http://jenny-and-erin.com/2007/06/are-you-a-good-person/#comment-174 I don't know if you've ever played role-playing games, but if not, the Dungeons and Dragons game <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alignment_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29">defines a character's alignment</a> as one of nine, of which each is one of the many possible combinations of good vs. evil and order vs. chaos. I think it covers the possibilities quite well. I'd describe myself as Chaotic Neutral. I don't think a universal moral standard is possible because moral values are potentially mutually exclusive. Consider the samurai practice of seppuku; they would die at their own hands to cleanse their honor. This is counter to the Christian "Thou shalt not kill" Any universal moral standard would have to be so vague as to be practically useless. i.e., the Golden Rule. If one is raised to believe heart and soul that it's necessary to die if one's honor is sullied, then they would not be against killing another whose honor they believe is sullied. But what if the person they're about to kill doesn't hold the same belief? Of course that example is an extreme one and doesn't apply to humans (at least not any more as far as I know), but it illustrates the difficulty in clearly defining a rule where differing beliefs are concerned. I don’t know if you’ve ever played role-playing games, but if not, the Dungeons and Dragons game defines a character’s alignment as one of nine, of which each is one of the many possible combinations of good vs. evil and order vs. chaos. I think it covers the possibilities quite well. I’d describe myself as Chaotic Neutral.

I don’t think a universal moral standard is possible because moral values are potentially mutually exclusive. Consider the samurai practice of seppuku; they would die at their own hands to cleanse their honor. This is counter to the Christian “Thou shalt not kill”

Any universal moral standard would have to be so vague as to be practically useless. i.e., the Golden Rule. If one is raised to believe heart and soul that it’s necessary to die if one’s honor is sullied, then they would not be against killing another whose honor they believe is sullied. But what if the person they’re about to kill doesn’t hold the same belief?

Of course that example is an extreme one and doesn’t apply to humans (at least not any more as far as I know), but it illustrates the difficulty in clearly defining a rule where differing beliefs are concerned.

]]> By: Jenny http://jenny-and-erin.com/2007/06/are-you-a-good-person/#comment-172 Jenny Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:44:02 +0000 http://jenny-and-erin.com/2007/06/are-you-a-good-person/#comment-172 Hello Brickballon, I think you make some interesting points. A couple of thoughts on what you've said - 1. Perhaps it is easier to see universal standards by looking at as many philosophies and religions as possible and seeing what, if any, similarities arise. This is where I am currently with my thinking but it is possible that you have already done this and this searching is what has brought you to the conclusion you have. If so, I'd be interested in hearing more on what you found. 2. In your thinking - i.e. using the 10 commandments as an ultimate moral standard where would things such as virginity before marriage fit in? It certainly isn't covered within the 10 commandments so would it be expected in order to be a good person? How do you accomodate all of the other smaller rules of Christianity and the disagreements between Christian sects and have them make sense as a ultimate moral standard for all people? 3. Isn't there something sacred in the very act of striving to be a good person? Just because one doesn't completely attain what they are striving for doesn't mean the journey was a waste. If I manage to make myself a better person I am sure that the people who interact with me regularly would be grateful and I don't know that I would describe my efforts however flawed as a failure. Anyhow, thanks for commenting and I'd be interested in anything you have to say. Hello Brickballon,
I think you make some interesting points.

A couple of thoughts on what you’ve said -

1. Perhaps it is easier to see universal standards by looking at as many philosophies and religions as possible and seeing what, if any, similarities arise. This is where I am currently with my thinking but it is possible that you have already done this and this searching is what has brought you to the conclusion you have. If so, I’d be interested in hearing more on what you found.

2. In your thinking - i.e. using the 10 commandments as an ultimate moral standard where would things such as virginity before marriage fit in? It certainly isn’t covered within the 10 commandments so would it be expected in order to be a good person? How do you accomodate all of the other smaller rules of Christianity and the disagreements between Christian sects and have them make sense as a ultimate moral standard for all people?

3. Isn’t there something sacred in the very act of striving to be a good person? Just because one doesn’t completely attain what they are striving for doesn’t mean the journey was a waste. If I manage to make myself a better person I am sure that the people who interact with me regularly would be grateful and I don’t know that I would describe my efforts however flawed as a failure.

Anyhow, thanks for commenting and I’d be interested in anything you have to say.

]]> By: Brickballoon http://jenny-and-erin.com/2007/06/are-you-a-good-person/#comment-169 Brickballoon Sun, 10 Jun 2007 04:24:58 +0000 http://jenny-and-erin.com/2007/06/are-you-a-good-person/#comment-169 Have you considered that there might be a universal standard? If groups of people, or even individuals, have different standards of what is good, what is right and what is wrong, does that not make it difficult to even exist together? You ask some good questions. Is civil law (making things legal or illegal) directly related to a universal moral standard? If we take the Ten Commandments as God's moral standard (which God has told us they are), then civil law is not in full agreement with God's universal law. To be a good person in God's eyes you need to have NEVER broken any of His laws. A key question is, how can you follow all the rules needed to be a good person? The answer is that you can't. Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever take something that was not yours? Have you always obeyed and honored your parents? Jesus said that whoever looks at another with lust has committed adultery in their heart. Have you ever done that? These are just four of God's moral laws. Just as there is a penalty for breaking a civil law, there is a penalty for breaking God's law. The penalty is death (spiritual death or what is called the lake of fire. - The Bible says, for example, that all liars have a place in the lake of fire.) Who can be a good person based on God's standard? No one. We have ALL broken God's laws and must pay the penalty. But what if someone stepped in and paid our penalty for us? We would be free, if we accepted that free gift. And it is our choice. We can accept the gift of Jesus Christ dying in our place to pay our penalty, or we can pay the penalty we owe for breaking God's laws ourselves. "God saved you by His special favor when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God." - Ephesians 2:8 Have you considered that there might be a universal standard? If groups of people, or even individuals, have different standards of what is good, what is right and what is wrong, does that not make it difficult to even exist together?

You ask some good questions. Is civil law (making things legal or illegal) directly related to a universal moral standard? If we take the Ten Commandments as God’s moral standard (which God has told us they are), then civil law is not in full agreement with God’s universal law.

To be a good person in God’s eyes you need to have NEVER broken any of His laws.

A key question is, how can you follow all the rules needed to be a good person? The answer is that you can’t. Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever take something that was not yours? Have you always obeyed and honored your parents? Jesus said that whoever looks at another with lust has committed adultery in their heart. Have you ever done that?

These are just four of God’s moral laws. Just as there is a penalty for breaking a civil law, there is a penalty for breaking God’s law. The penalty is death (spiritual death or what is called the lake of fire. - The Bible says, for example, that all liars have a place in the lake of fire.)

Who can be a good person based on God’s standard? No one. We have ALL broken God’s laws and must pay the penalty.

But what if someone stepped in and paid our penalty for us? We would be free, if we accepted that free gift. And it is our choice. We can accept the gift of Jesus Christ dying in our place to pay our penalty, or we can pay the penalty we owe for breaking God’s laws ourselves.

“God saved you by His special favor when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God.” - Ephesians 2:8

]]>